tv Horse Racing Anti- Doping Program CSPAN June 22, 2018 10:27pm-12:46am EDT
>> be sure to join us july 21 and 22 when we feature our visit alaska. watch alaska weekend on c-span, c-span .org and listen on the free c-span radio app. >> at this house energy and commerce subcommittee hearing members question witnesses from the horse racing community about doping in the sport and a proposal to set uniform anti- doping standards. the hearing begins with testimony from congressman andy barr and paul tonko about addressing the issue. this is two hours and 15 minutes. [inaudible conversations]
[inaudible conversations] >> good morning. i like to call the subcommittee on digital commerce the consumer protection to order this morning. welcome you all here this morning. at this time the chair will recognize the gentleman from oregon for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. how to think our witnesses on this panel and i will stipulate at the beginning i have to go manage the floor debate on hr six, our big wrapup on opioids. my apologies but that starts
now, as well. a keep my remarks fairly short and i will dispense with the session about the great thundering herds of mustangs across the high desert of eastern oregon. my district is enormous and uses and was racing and rodeo and ranching are all part of it. we appreciate all of you being here today as we have this legislative hearing and the frustration to react of 2017. from the kentucky bluegrass, is hold a special place in our hearts and history. today across country especially my district forces are part of the fabric and culture and part of our economy. my district is home to a world famous pendleton roundup, great rodeos of the west and local races in places like [inaudible] and everywhere else. his will know and appreciate was racing in particular has a storied history in this country and remains an important economic driver. our discussion of mr. barr and
mr. tonko is timely. earlier sent the weapon's history as justified became the 13th horse to complete the triple crown. today will hear from you the experts about racing industry and how it is currently regulated and what can be done to protect these wonderful, wonderful animals. want to know your thoughts on the legislative and hand and we know your thoughts on it depending on your issue. its impact on the industry and how to promote the integrity of the sport. you have insight how we can address concerns that currently exist as i thank you all for being here today with this important discussion. i'm looking forward to your practice on the sport and i'll back the balance with time and as we like to say in eastern oregon, let her buck. >> the gentleman you back. thank you very much. at this time it's delayed right
now that the ranking member of the subcommittee and ranking member of the full committee will informally pass on their opening statements on the right into mine at this time. what do you thank you all for appearing today for us to discuss the legislation of hr 2161 of the horse racing integrity act of 2017. this legislation will establish independent, nonprofit authority that horse racing anti- doping -- this will be tasked with a medication control program for first races and affiliated persons. the bill also aims to ban the use of medications for hours before race which advocate an opponents and does the committee results in a band of classics and widely used medication used to address exercise-induced
imaging. it's long and distinguished history in the united states and a couple weeks ago on june 9 millions of americans watched as justified resource occupied [inaudible] this is an historical compliment celebrated across the globe. it results that racing is an international sport although the first races of the triple crown are the worthless procedures and other info events are the united kingdom, france and australia and united arab emirates on the worldwide appeal of the sport. here in united states at least 32 states have horse racing tracks stretching from california to maine including my home state of ohio. these tracks by the basis an industry as a far-reaching and significant impact on the us economy. last year approximately 51000 horses competed in races
competing for total purse of more than $1 billion. according to a recent study the equine industry reached more than $120 billion of impact and provided the total impact of almost 1.8 million jobs. processing generates $750 million in annual revenue and sportsmen and $60000. pricing is important part of the american public both as a sport and as a source of entertainment. it ensures that the integrity how the sport is important to owners, competitors and fans alike. i look forward to hearing from the views on the witness today in this legislation. with that, i your back the balance of my time. at this time i will organize the gentleman from california for a five-minute opening statement. >> thank you very much for having us at this hearing and i like to think my colleagues for introducing this legislation. good morning everybody. i'm glad that the cosponsor of
this bipartisan legislation and ipod representatives tonko in barr. as an advocate of protecting for animals i'm glad that were having a hearing on indications of drug use in the most racing industry. it is true that most states currently have relations on drug use in horseracing there is little uniformity. this legislation is important because it would establish an independent authority to oversee the industry which would include members of the united states, anti- doping agency and an organization that has been very effective at overseeing drug use in other sports. the main purpose of the regulatory authority is to implement a uniform entitlement program to create a national standard that it ensures all states are following the same roles. over medications of horses, like humans, can be dangerous. 493 thoroughbred forces died in
2017 and while there may be several reasons for these equine desks it is hard to point out -- sees me, it's hard to point to other factors when other over 90% of the breads in the united states receive some form of state medication. it's critical that we have an organization to provide oversight to this industry we need to make sure that there is fairness in horseracing but the main focus should always be on the welfare of the horse and the safety of the jockeys. i look for to hearing from her colleagues and who are about to ensure that safety in the sport that many of us have enjoyed is now in a better place. i'll back. >> the balance of this time and as i mentioned, when we formally pass on the ranking member statement and when he gets here
he can give a statement but that will conclude that opening statement from our members. pursuant to committee rules all members opening payment will be made part of the record and i asking of us can send energy and commerce be permitted to participate in today's hearing without objection, so ordered. pursuant to hospitals members that are not on the committee are able to attend the meeting but will not be able to ask questions. at this time we want to thank our witnesses for being with us today and i appreciate you coming forward the samiti to justify our first panel will be organized for opening statements and then without recessing we will see our second panel of witnesses will be organized for the opening statement. members have an opportunity to ask questions. first panel of witnesses are the original cosponsors and representative andy barr from the great state of kentucky and
thank you for being here and mr. barr, you are recognized for your opening statement. >> thank you for putting this hearing on our legislative hr 2061, the first racing integrity act. was first elected to congress i dedicated my service to promoting the signature industries of kentucky and nothing was more synonymous with our commonwealth then thoroughbred briefing and horseracing. my district in particular holds the title as capital of the world. now 11 of the 13 triple crown winners were in the -- lexington kentucky is surrounded by more than 400 for class response including the home of the last triple crown winner american pharaoh.
we host many notable races including the progress states in 2015 peters cup. however the sport is not only prominent in our district but chasing is actually a national sport. therefore, advocating for this industry requires more than just celebrating a proud heritage. with the pledge of reps sending the capital of the world comes the responsibility of fighting for its future. as the chairman pointed out this is not just a sport but an industry with enormous economic benefit and enormous impact in terms of job creation. that is why, i with my fellow chair introduced the first racing integrity act to enact reforms that would ensure the industry continues to grow and prosper. currently regulated by 38 separate jurisdictions our signature racing industry labors under a patchwork of conflicting and inconsistent state -based rules governing prohibitive substances, cab lab equipment
and penalties. this lack of uniformity has impeded interstate commerce and compromised the international competitiveness of the industry and undermine public confidence in the integrity of our sport. hr 2651 would remedy these problems by authorizing the creation of a non- governmental anti- doping authority and governed by representatives of the industry and responsible for permitting a national uniform education program for the horseracing industry. today you are here for many supporters of this bill and you hear from critics of this legislation on the panels to follow. the critics will say this legislation will create a new negative regulatory bureaucracy of the federal level and will duplicate what states are already doing. they will say it increases regulation and say advance lasix which is currently legal and the concerns the ability of the united states anti- doping agency to regulate this program.
it is true that the industry has made notable strides in recent years to adopt uniform standards in the work of the racing medication and testing consortium and the and tra safety integrity has been positive and should be commended but to date only 11 of the 38 recent jurisdictions with false permitting [inaudible] the remaining estate racing jurisdictions operate under only rules applicable to that state and of great variances. a fleeting racing states like new york, california, third, kentucky non- have fully implanted [inaudible]. as a conservative reason state rights and conservatism i believe the constitution gives congress the power to relate as
it commerce, precisely for the purpose of eliminating these impediments to interstate exchange. a national uniformity kitchen program is not about creating a more bureaucracy or more regulation. in fact, this legislation reduces regulations by replacing 38 state-by-state regulatory regimes with a single national uniform set of standards. to address concerns with the dispersion of specific drugs hr 2061 does not ban the ministration of lasix fortunately therapeutic purposes rather it prohibits trainers from administering these drugs on race day. it preserves out of competition therapeutic administration and this will bring us regulations in line with other horseracing counterpart places like europe, dubai in hong kong. ultimately emanating perception unfair competition and enhancing the reputation of us racing on an international level which is important for the international sales and exports of our briefing stock as well. finally, he saw his a moment to the ha d8 would bring this court into independent in credibility. will be made up of industry officials benefiting from the individuals tasked with addressing the challenges presented with horseracing today.
hr 2651 would address many of the issues confronting the industry, increase the popularity of public conference and competitiveness of the sport. in the wake of justifies historic triple crown it is important we use this momentum to continue to fight for the future of the special industry. i yield back. >> and you very much. the gentleman is back in the chair now recognizes the gentleman from york for five minutes. >> thank you. i want to offer my thanks here publicly. thank you for the opportunity for the hearing and likewise i thank you for the opportunity to testify before you the importance of promoting uniformity and integrity in the racing industry. you might think a new york democrat and a kentucky republic can't agree on much but we have developed a strong working relationship on this issue because we both love the sport
of horseracing and want to see it right. i am pleased that we are holding this hearing today to learn about what we can do to improve the sport of kinks and ensure the sport continues to thrive well into the future. we have a distinguished panel of witnesses from across the spectrum to share their thoughts with us on this important issue i look forward to hearing from them. is home to the nation's oldest the saratoga racecourse and my home area is been long steeped in the tradition of horseracing dating back to 1863. the equine industry is a important driver for the state of new york and with an estimated estimated impact of $5.3 billion annually. in 2015 i had a chance to see in person the sport at its very best when i bore witness to the historic run by america pharaoh at the beaumont track to capture the triple crown. we placed majestic equine athletes like our newest triple crown champion justified front and center to capture the imagination of our nation and
the sport of horseracing and continue to grow in our hearts. however, we have all seen them stay results that can occur when the equine athletes are pushed beyond their limit often aided by medications that can mask underlying health issues. this dangerous race at all cost mentality denigrates the sport and should be unacceptable to anyone in the horseracing community. the same story has played out countless times across the country because the current voluntary uniform medication reforms have been implement it unevenly leading patchwork systems in place and created a wide disparity and effectiveness of medication testing and enforcement. this piecemeal voluntary approach is not only detrimental to the health of our beloved horses but denigrates the perception of the sport and certainly puts other athletes like our jockeys at risk. my colleague andy barr has indicated some of the statistics
on those voluntary occasions efforts and i won't repeat them but if horseracing is to thrive as an industry and once again capture the public's imagination we must and we can do better. on this point the public strongly agrees more than 90% of the public in 90% of horse players want to see stronger action on uniformed medication reform. in the sport built on the integrity of competition nothing is more important than a level playing fold for the horses, the jockeys in the trainers who compete as well as the fans who wager on the races. while the voluntary approach is well-meaning the lack of effective follow-through has negatively impacted the perception of fair competition across the sport and has done little to build confidence in the minds of our sport fans in a sports critics. many of whom are concerned about drug use and testing.
by creating a strong transparent and independent and let me independent repeated, independent and vitamin authority we can guarantee fair play, improve the health of our forces and bring new energy and spectators to this majestic sport. that is why i am joined with my friend and introducing the horseracing integrity act. the legislation we have introduced would create a national independent and horseracing anti- doping authority responsible for rulemaking, testing and enforcement oversight regarding drugs and medication. this new organization would be chaired by representatives at the independent united states anti- doping agency, nonprofit, nongovernmental institution and the board of the new organization would also include voices, representing a spectrum of perspectives within the horseracing industry including our owners, breeders, horseman, racetrack and certainly our veterinarians.
the new organization would be responsible for determining permitted and permitted substances in the schedule of sections for violations testing procedures, standards, protocols, laboratory accreditation procedures and due process procedures for violations. many have questioned why purchasing is to be partnering with [inaudible] and association with no history in the sport. the physiological makeup of forces that humans are different the need and method for effective testing protocols with uniform standards and penalties as well as proper lab accreditation is the same. this is where the real strength as an organization lies. the horseracing anti- doping approach would implement best practices for uniform testing and uniform penalties and well-designed out of and fully accredited labs to deter cheaters and appropriately penalize violators.
one of the major strengths of the legislation is from the outset we engaged in a broad coalition of stakeholders both inside and outside the industry interested in medication reform. that is why we are able to gain support from a diverse range of organizations including animal where full groups like the main society of the united states or groups like the jockey club, the breeders' cup and the new york racing association and the grassroots oath alliance in addition to some of the largest track owners in our country. since the legislation was introduced we abutted this further and worked with any stakeholders interested in uniformity in clean sport. i look for to hearing for our diverse panel all of their seen on the ground and how best we can move forward together to strengthen this sport and with that, mr. taylor, i held back the balance of my time. >> the gentleman is back and i want to thank you both for your testimony before us today. that will conclude our first panel of witnesses and we will move on to our second panel. thank you very much for your testimony. >> thank you
introduced by representatives tonko and barr is a critical piece of legislation. it is past time we address the glaring issues within the horse industry. this is personal for me as a former owner of a horse named dj sullivan. i know how important these majestic animals are and i have fond memories of tending to in writing horses with mike grandfather as a young girl and i have also been a long time supporter of animal welfare protections. you should know of all the issues that are going on animal rights of some sort always in the top five of the communications that i get from my constituents which i find interesting and ranging from pollinators to dogs and cats and all other kinds of endangered species and i'm happy that representative tonko and barr
have updated this legislation and i'm proud to be a cosponsor and i was lead sponsor of similar register legislation with. the new tonko and barr bill includes the legislation expanded to include standard bread and quarter horses and all resources should be afforded the same protection under the legislation most notably the pieces of land on race day medication and i feel is the most important change to the legislation. drugs such as lasix are often misused in order to increase the process performance during the race and proponents of using lasix will claim that it is similar to giving up first a vaccination and is used to
prevent bleeding. however the reality is that the drug is masking and underlying health issue with the first, as well, as the possible cousins of illegal substance. this use of these drugs jeopardizes the long-term health and safety of the first. more than 90% of the places in the united states compete on a sec and most international racing the drug is banned on race day. united states should learn from those other countries. we are literally running horses into the ground and recent data by the town that are hundred died in -- if human athletes were dying at this race while racing it would be clear there would be a problem and it needed to be fixed. these glaring number harm the
integrity of the industry and horses in these sports deserve protection and for too long we have allowed the industry to self regulate without project and her protection and ensuring the bad actors. it would address many of these issues claiming the industry would allow an independent regulatory body to oversee the industry to create a national standard and ensure states are following the same rules and implement a uniform anti- doping ram that prohibits race day drugs. the future of racing depends on this universal regulatory body and we must ensure that we are protecting horses, stopping at the bad actors who are endangering the lives of these forces. jockeys and the fate of the industry itself that so many people love.
if we have band doping and other sports why not ban it in for spaces industry and i look forward to hearing the testimony and how we can continue to protect equine and the integrity of the horseracing industry. are you back. >> thank you. the gentle 80 euros back the balance of the time and i want to thank our witnesses for in our second panel witnesses will be able to present with a five-minute opening statement followed by a round of questions from our members. our second witness pel will include the chairman and ceo of thoroughbred persons association inc. and mr. stewart of the jockey club and mr. eric camelback the ceo of the national benevolent and protective association and acting president of the main
society of the night states and mr. ed martin, the president of association of racing commissioners international and the ceo of the breeders' cup. we want to thank you all for being here today. mr. foreman, he recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. chairman. is that better? thank you. good morning. i am proud and honored to be invited to participate this morning to defend the honor and integrity of the racing industry and post what is tantamount federal takeover of a state sanctioned state regulated industry where no basis to do so exists.
hr 2651 is not in the best interest of the racing industry and is an ill-conceived effort by certain special interests to impose their minority and special-interest views on the regulation of our industry. we have deep reservations about the provisions contained in this legislation because of its total adverse impact on the health welfare and safety of our forces in the economics of the industry. although the proponents have you believe that this bill is a simple effort at uniformity that enjoys broad-based industry support, nothing could be further from the truth. while certainly this legislation has been divisive there is been broad-based consensus with the remarkable consensus comprising more than 55 industry organizations and stakeholder groups covering all three racing breeds and regulators and the battery community and that consensus is united in its opposition to hr 61. hr 61 purports to create a system for the uniform regulation we use of medication in the racing industry with such
a uniform system already exists and it works well. performance-enhancing drugs are not allowed in a horse on race day and horseracing unlike in human, professional and amateur sports conditions. there is a total uniformity on this issue in every racing jurisdiction. racing has you is, policies, guidelines and laboratory testing in all racing estates that are superior with any sport or business in the world in our system is totally transparent. we strongly support the existing mechanism by which medication policies are formulated. these are scientifically based policies form the basis of the regulatory scheme currently in place and made after thoughtful deliberation and dialogue that includes input from an important array of organizations including most apparently the racing medication and testing consortium which serves as the industry's scientific policy on. as a demonstration of the ongoing efforts to improve our current system the racing
industry is currently in the process of adopting major changes nationally and five areas and identified as a needed improvement. it includes enhanced out of hand testing. it seeks to replace our new system with new federal bureaucracy on the state system that has existed for over a century. with governance, strip from the states and given to a private group of hand-picked, uninformed and unqualified individuals know little to nothing about the racing industry or the health and welfare of the horse including [inaudible] which does not now or has never had involvement in the equines were pretty decent unfunded mandate gets unfettered taxing authority to this private, federally putting room without any accountability to the states with taxes to pay for b odyssey will be ultimately assessed the whole responders with it would deprive them of their state protections and told them to the federal system. we believe that the
congressional research service previously deemed most likely as being unconstitutional is unconstitutional for the same reasons and more particularly in light of the supreme court's recent decision. i can assure you that hr 2651 had passed it will be challenged in court by states objecting to federal takeover of their state sanctions and state regular. industries in our industry will be consumed and costly and protracted litigation can only harm its economic well-being. the question is what is the crisis? what is the overriding federal interest that requires the federal government and the kids in a sleeping takeover of a state sanctioned, state regulated industry that does its job well? ...
>> a 30 year industry scientifically based policy universally adopted by state regulators. to eliminate this medication would cause great economic consequences throughout every leveof this industry the biggest crisis we have ever known. this is not hyperbole it is fact. finally the mandate that drives everything we do in this industry to protect the health and welfare of the horse. the integrity of our sport and the fairness of competition and the best interest of the betting public i can assure this committee not a day in this industry that we are not laser focused on the core principles.
hr 2661 does not meet the standards. thank you. >> you recognize for five minutes. >> good morning. terminated english members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to speak on the horseracing integrity act of 2017. this issue is extremely important to the thorough bread ministry and the jockey club that has been advocating for medication for decades. the jockey club is for the thorough breads in the united states and canada and as the chairman i like to explain why this legislation is important to us. if we reflect on racing's history we understand that until the 1960s racing was local. i grew up in maryland and my parents were very successful in maryland racing and on rare occasions they would venture to new york with a good horse but essentially the only race
in maryland those that went to the maryland track sale it made sense the racing activities were regulated by the state of maryland by and large it worked. then two things happened. first people learned how well horses travel they can step off the van in the morning run well in the afternoon then travel home that night without a problem. second, interstate simulcasting simulcasting was introduced in 1978. congress passed the interstate horseracing ad which enabled simulcasting and wagering across state lines. however the regulatory structure never changed i want you to realize that our triple crown races are conducted under different set several what drugs can be administered and withdrawal times for those drugs and security protocols are all different. over the last couple of weeks i have run horses in new york, new jersey maryland and
kentucky. in total i need licenses in nine states everyone with a different set of rules. these are the facts of thoroughbred racing today our sport is international our horses are sold to buyers around the world our shuttle and those that crossed the international borders and that is the fastest-growing segment of our wagering. we are entering an age of sports betting where racing will hopefully have betting platform mode of which play by different rules on a state-by-state basis. opponents of this bill will tell you instances of this cheating are remote and the states are well on their way to uniformity and the horses need race day medication even though the rest of the world prohibits it out of competition testing isn't necessary. but let me tell you about a trainer in pennsylvania
charged with fraud conspiracy and misbranding of prescription drugs a fellow trader testified private veterinarians told him what they were tested for at the states lab he requested race day treatment accordingly to avoid getting caught based on that knowledge the performance of the racing commission was worse they did nothing and the fbi had to get involved it is naïve to suggest these are not occurring in other states with the anti- doping agency will tell you the most important part of the system is out of competition testing if you don't know when you will be tested and you know your samples will be tested by the accredited lab and help for years, you know when you will be penalized and you will have a deterrent.
i'm sure many of you wonder why many in the industry would ask congress to engage in the area of domain estate regulators. despite decades to achieve uniformity, we have failed in congress and this committee in particular helps to save our industry bypassing the aforementioned interstate horseracing act and we hope you can do so again. we strongly believe our sport needs the independent organization to apply uniform rules and stringent out of competition testing, tough penalties and effective enforcement procedures to ensure clean competition and improve safety for horses and humans alike this is consistent with the core belief of the jockey club they should compete only when they are free from medication we look forward to working with you. thank you. >> thank you for your testimony and you are recognized for five minutes.
>> i appreciate the opportunity, i'm with a benevolent association located in lexington kentucky we are the largest organization representing 30,000 owners and trainers in u.s. and canada i been involved with horses my entire professional life. before assuming my current position i did everything from mucking stalls to managing one of the largest breeding corporations in the world a true horseman. i wish to state emphatically the vast majority of thoroughbred organizations and to other organizations representing racing breeds u.s. trotting association and the american thoroughbred
association are all on the record formally opposing hr 2651. we believe owners and trainers should administer drugs with no therapeutic resources should be severely penalized doping is illegal and immoral. to be maintained by the state racing authority, piled by the racing commissioners to show conclusively that doping of resources in the u.s. is rare. in fact the horseracing industry spends millions of dollars on comprehensive testing each year. in 2017, there are over 354,000 biological samples taken by regulators in the u.s. only 169 of those were positive for drugs that had no business being in the horse. to put it plainly 99.9% of all tests were negative of any
doping substance. that is our record that should be the envy of every sport that tests for illegal drugs. another statistic is that the states representing 95% of the dollars wagered in the u.s. are under the same therapeutic medication list and 100% are under the uniform prohibiting informant performance-enhancing medication. along with the american association of equine practitioners and north american association of racetrack veterinarians draw a very clear distinction between doping and lawful therapeutic medications. commonly called lasik it is prevented to medicate leading in the lungs a condition we call exercise-induced pulmonary imaging is
transparent to the public in safely used for over 40 years. we support the use of this and other therapeutic medication for the health and welfare of our horses american veterinary medical association representing more than 91000 veterinarians who have no vested interest in horseracing support the policy which clearly states the use on race day is the most efficacious way to control the condition these veterinary experts should not be ignored. but yet his voice is calling for the band on race day those that do so he quite the usage to doping and that is false that scientific clinical evidence establishes the facts about lasik that include nearly all resources have to some varying degree does not
prevent post race protection from other drugs that is a myth. it is not performance-enhancing but does not make a horse run faster than its god-given ability and it is a choice. you have a choice at choice as an owner or user some say if they don't use it that neither we should we. it is widely used in training in other countries from welfare standpoint it makes no sense to me that should be used on race day when the stress of competitive racing heightens in the risk of harm caused by the internal bleeding increases. in summary there is no need for the federal government to reinvent the wheel by establishing a new regulatory structure when it is already working well and new federal
structure would likely take years to gain the necessary knowledge and would cost millions of dollars. hr 2651 is not needed the job we are doing is being done very well thank you and i appreciate the opportunity to be here and happy to answer any questions. >> thank you for your testimony are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. on behalf of the humane society of the united states and humane society legislative fund i appreciate this opportunity to testify in support of hr 2651. thank you chairman and ranking member for holding the steering and the representatives for introducing this important legislation. first, i want to make clear
our position on horseracing and interest in this legislation, we are not opposing horseracing interest is improving the welfare of all animals including racehorses. in 2016 we formed the national horseracing advisory council the goal was to facilitate the exchange of information between people who have spent a lifetime in this industry and those of us who care about equine welfare. the council includes industry experts the jockey club, resource breeders former state racing commission officials and former jockeys and is a former owner we believe everyone who makes a living in this industry has an obligation to protect and enhance the welfare of horses who are at the heart and soul of this business. throughout history horses have played a key role the development of society they are majestic creatures who have served us in so many ways
from plowing fields and fighting in wars. today we partner with these athletes in competitions and recreational writing. horses have served as a symbol of the american spirit. we have a duty to care for them humanely and not put them in harms way and provide a safe and comfortable life for them once their racing career has ended. it is a glaring oversight therefore that there is no national regulatory body for horseracing. this creates a disparity of racing regulations and uneven enforcement in the u.s. acyl servicing humane society international president as the global arm. i'm keenly aware the u.s. is lagging behind other nations. in particular in australia the horseracing industry is
successful without the use of race day medications. the ethical issues are closely related to concerns raised about doping of professional sports in olympic competition these industries all have policies against certain types of drug use and the high-profile incident the racing industry continues because too many stakeholders want to maintain the status quo and this is not the only problem. therapeutic drugs are problematic allowing a horse to push through pain to intensify injury leading to breakdowns or death. this has had decades to clean up its act but it is unable to do so this is not impulsive government intervention or unnecessary.
it comes after the death of thousands of horses declining fan interest in general crisis of confidence in the sport and national industry that demand consistent standards rather than the current patchwork of state racing regulations. additionally as a subcommittee knows well congress has for the past decade wrestled with the problem of healthy horses being funneled into the slaughter pipeline including those coming from the racetrack. racehorses with injuries are often sent to slaughter once the horses are no longer able to run. they can live well into their 20s and 30s and the career only spans the first five year of life those who are healthy when they retire from racing when a far better position to transition to a second career less likely to be sold to kill their buyers if you agree with those opposed horses for human consumption this reduces those
horses killed for their meat as an animal protection organization we have seen any industry taking shortcuts on animal welfare will see a loss of public support. undeniably for a variety of reasons horseracing industry is in decline and it is critical they're trying to meet the highest standards of animal care we shouldn't put horses lives at risk. thank you. >> thank you for your testimony you are now recognized for five minutes turn on the microphone and pull it up. >> i appreciate the opportunity to be here. i was instructed firmly by the ohio state racing commission to stand up for those standards of all horses that race in the states.
i am here to explain the sport of horse racing into perspective with others support and identify the real need where we believe it is to protect the welfare of the horse there has been things said so far they cannot squeeze them all in five minutes but i have a rather lengthy written testimony that addresses almost everything that has already been said. to set standards for thoroughbred standards and quarter horseracing rewrite present regulators in canada and other jurisdictions the classification system are respected worldwide and have adopted portions of those rules by reference first the state racing regulators are totally prohibiting the presence of performance-enhancing drugs in a horse when it races. second the total uniformity of the adoption of the 30 year equine policy to permit a
voluntary treatment and with the exception of two states of the drug testing labs internationally accredited also told uniformity of progression penalties and substantial uniformity of those thresholds of those appropriate medications being normal and appropriate for equine care the state racing commission does more testing than any other professional sport last year 354,000 biological samples were sent to the labs by comparison and all of those anti-doping agency's last test tested 300 samples of u.s. anti- doping agency tested 13000 samples. the testing is comparable when you look at substances detected that those that are readily available on the internet you will see they are not catching anything the state racing commissions don't catch or have the ability to
catch does that mean we don't have the challenge? no. we have the same challenge that every other sport has. use of substances undetectable or unknown. based upon the numbers which are factual and may be inconvenient for those advocating this bill horseracing debt as good of a job or a bad of job as the olympics or any other sport it is a little-known fact that the standard in horseracing are stricter than the anti-doping agency because we do not permit permit athletes to obtain permission to use performance-enhancing drugs and competition as is allowed under the therapeutic use provisions of others. according to the 2016 annual report online they approve 81% of their use exemption requested athletes are given permission to use hormone stimulants and narcotics cannabinoids and a host of other drugs that we would
never ever ever allowed to be in a horse when it races. there is an expansion of sports betting. there are a lot of things that you allow that we don't allow the medication policies developed by considerable network as well as the veterinary community we are opposed to this bill because it is a radical and unnecessary federalization of a state responsibility exercised effectively. i would like to conclude by saying in most eight the regulatory jurisdiction does not reach young horses intended to become racers as the bones of these young horses mature the stage is set for their career but there are drugs to be used on the sources that the fda has warned veterinarians about their safety but yet they are used and used wisely. our concern is their use could
affect bone development contributing to stress fractures which we already know can lead to a catastrophic breakdown. this is the unregulated aspect of the sport. we believe it needs to be addressed and we are serious about protecting our horses this is controversial because it sparks discussion to regulate a part of the industry that has no regulatory oversight. we ask this subcommittee clearly put an end only then can the industry and regulators and organizations and interested lawmakers get on the same page there are things the federal government can do to help that proposal and this is not one of them.
>> you are now recognized for five minutes for your statement. >> mr. chairman and ranking member is a great privilege to have the opportunity to advocate for the passage of the horseracing integrity act of 2017. a president she ceo at the breeders' cup to the conduct of the breeders' cup world championships and in my view and i wish to begin my comments i'm not here to tear down this great sport. what enforcement over the last ten years and i do not debate that that my comments today are about the problems we face with the wagering and non- wagering in the public under common rules administered consistently and fairly for all. when we introduced in the 30s and 40s a highly local
sport and those that chose pari-mutuel wagering. for the most part they stayed put or even near my home state of maryland. the horses did travel to participate in the triple crown but it was a game under local rules. wagering is primarily a simulcasting effort now increasing share placed online. it is no common place to go from state to state or for overseas and this week for example on the grounds of windsor castle and lester at the breeders' cup there were
nerdy international runners from south america. it was a challenges associated with all words. those are modern particularly in the world of medication and there has been progress we remade a locally governed sport with those enforcement capabilities we all need to be aware of synthetic steroids and the possibilities ahead for the equine genome that this has sophisticated national programs with those regulatory matter testing and prosecution. the most advanced form of the regulatory mechanism.
those with various levels of funding and expertise we created a national organization such as one contemplated by the horseracing integrity act. i think it is obvious to choose the former and not the latter. it remains unusually cumbersome. it may sound like i'm picking away friends in california i am not meaning to single them out one of the most capably regulated states when it came to the national program the regulations almost four years were taken to adopt the breeders' cup tied to adopt house rules in california. so that implementation process could take years.
that is not to say rulemaking should be fast tracked or be arbitrary but it should allow for quicker implementation from the state lines contemplated by the horseracing integrity act. i spent the first part of my career as a securities lawyer you may practice in washington d.c. i am a big believer in the fact that the sec is the primary regulatory of the securities industry engenders confidence there have been failings but confidence in the market and those thoroughbred business to bring about those externa regains and those that deserve such a great game but it is my sincere hope that difference of opinion not
about how the sport is regulated or conducted. >> that will conclude the testimony from the witnesses and to recognize. >> thank you for being here in response to this legislation there has been a lot input and we appreciate that these are important things and then to wrestle with these issues but those to increase bone density and reports indicate that some breeders use them without good
cause sometimes to improve their chances another times to make them more marketable to buyers. are they regulated and monitored? and further doesn't that mean the breeders are allowed to operate to ensure the safety of the horses? >> certainly there is an element of truth to what you are saying the answer would be the real regulation of horses comes when they make their first appearance at the racetrack. there are a lot of sales that require horses to present themselves in the very best way or to work a certain distance so they are attracted to buyers.
mr. martin said that's important and i think it is important to not think horses should be asked to do at a young age with a me be capable of doing but a horse works fast as a juvenile. so there is a push to get a horse to work very fast and it may not be appropriate. i have no problem addressing that issue. >> so pulmonary hemorrhaging they could bleed from their noses into their lungs in a race this is administered to horses for hours before the race veterinarian groups say this is necessary and is used in the best interest of resources for their health and welfare. with the scientific research to protect resources please
provide yes or no for the ipe h? >> i am not a veterinarian so i would defer to my colleagues. >> understanding the humane but how would you ban that on race day if they just agreed it protects horses starting of equine practitioners the american veterinary medical association. >> first of all the humane society veterinary association with 10000 members who recognize the problems of the race day medication. this is important legislation
that goes well beyond medication with problems and on race day the horses there before the case that is probably not the best thing people want to see it should not be projected they should be able to run clean and safe. >> i appreciate that but nobody wants to see that that with medication that protects horses and then a big proponent of states rights. so my understanding they collaborate with others for those the four pillars. and then where do you find
that resistance and why? >> and that is used against the industry by those who seem to think we don't have uniformity. with many years of work by the industry to determine what the artistic rules what can we do better to improve the regulation of the sport? initially there are four areas that that with the committee horses are treated on a daily basis in their best interest for injury or wellness. those that don't belong in a horse on race day and the
public doesn't understand the difference between the two and that is what was wrestled with. >> i hate to do this but we are going over time. that is my fault. >> but there are four areas. multiple medication violation. and the accreditation of laboratories. the largest concentration in the united states that 97% of racing jurisdictions have adopted the 96% that are credited.
>> something else may have questions on that. then you have ten days to submit a response. >> those who enter into the record. and then without objection. and then we now recognize the gentleman for new york. now we will jump ahead of the process. because of the conflicts. that sighting first our jockey in the audience it is great to have you here today. for your passion for the sport expressing your concerns about this issue.
the jury great strength to the industry. it is great to have everyone here. and then the international sport. but then the sport was running in texas if those challenges make sure consumers understand the sport better. don't play under different rules traveling from one league to another or one city to another. but in the old days to stay where they were the public wagered.
it we need modern system and with medication rules in comparison to what ways does this impact the industry? >> we talked a lot has those five elements. and there is some agreement to which substances are on the list. but not as much as has been suggested. and with those penalties we are getting there to some extent. but the labs are interesting if you don't have that you don't have anything. as a board member of the new york racing association we
operate through the aqueduct. currently we have requested of the governor of the art the money in the state budget which i believe with a new lab in new york will be up to international standards. that's a lab in new york is no way up to international standards. the positive in new york does that mean people in new york are more law-abiding? i don't know. but it is alarmingly lower especially for a major racing state. in the ceo of new york racing going around the french lab and others to the lithic labs
risen to anything that means that standard which is double-blind testing. >> does the horse racing act add that layer of bureaucracy into a single rulebook? >> this is the quickest way. the compact was discussed ten or 15 years ago. with this organization. you have the new york authority of horseracing act. so on other ways it is more
designed that you will not get where you need to be in this act does that. there have been concerns expressed on the intent of the horseracing integrity act to replace these commissions with the new anti- doping agency. >> it is currently drafted to allow new horseracing to delegate the authority with quality assurance but the possibility is these two things will exist in cooperation with one another but to streamline to make much more efficient. and those that oppose this. >> thank you very much. >> i yield back.
>> now the gentlelady from california. >> not in the best interest of the racing industry wide you believe that's the case? >> and that works well. >> industry is regulated by state regulators regulation of the support is very similar. as those that know nothing about the business but to be realistic but to allow others outside the industry to make
the rules for them. there was a proposal in t legislation doing what we are doing now. who will be in charge or make those decisions? i believe that is why states have legalized reasoning no different than any other lotteries regulated by the state sports gaming gambling is not for the federal government so just to make one correction i think it is important are labs are all internationally accredited except for one. the one in new york. but what we have done is created a code stricter than others we require our laboratories to hit those
international standards. we are better than the other laboratories it is a credit to both international standards and the coda standards. >> is this used at the breeders' cup? >> we wanted to with the provisions of the act that we prefer to run the races under international rules if you are watching your television you would see the horses running and in your capacity with the breeders' cup have you ever proposed a ban? >> yes.
and one year we were forced to back away from that. >> how was that received by the industry? >> many members were quite concerned we could not enforce our rules and many members of the training committee were not happy we cannot enforce the rules. >> i have several questions on the six is that currently mandated? >> its use is not mandated for any athlete. >> does that mean that they administer the medication? >> i believe the answer is they are not administered if it is administered lasik it is publicly posted into the
program and it is the choice of the owner with the veterinary acknowledgment does not choose to utilize lasix on their horse they do not do so. >> how is the veterinarian involved in the process? >> in my opinion, the decision to place your horse on the lasix list as we would call it to make that decision to utilize the therapeutic medication is a joint decision made by the owner, veterinarian and ultimately the trader or some say the coach. what what happened and should have it should be directed under the veterinary care to make sure the health and welfare of the individual is taking care of. >> so if every horse is administered lasik does any horse gain a competitive advantage? >> not in my opinion. it is very well dated that it
can help in the systems so with that if it prevents dpi age from occurring than most certainly it will allow the horse to perform at its natural talent. if bleeding does occur but does not go into the lungs but then will -- of a desk would do the lungs it would inhibit the course are gaining his advantag advantage. >> i'm out of time. thank you. >> thank you very much your time has expired the chair recognizes the gentlelady for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. tito t to do you believe we would see fewer catastrophic injuries if we banned the administration of drugs over the 24 hour period before we
stay? >> i think it would improve the situation. our industry has a very difficult perception problem it particularly with lasik in my view that probably doesn't prevent people from figuring out if other drugs should not be there. that's not the issue with the issue is sticking the needle in the horses neck four hours before the race. in the sport that says weight is important chris mccarron road at 113 pounds. so the horse loses weight. the other thing is we have a terrible problem that if you look at any betting show i don't run courses on lasix if
they are two roles but i do when they are three years old but i feel i have to. but i will guarantee you if one of my horses steps on the track whoever does the analysis for the betting public will say that on the mr. janney horse because that gets lasix for the first time. i will follow that up to say the pegasus cap last year they do not believe in lasix that was a $15 million race there there was a horse there called west coast the champion 3-year-old last year he was going to dubai after that to run without lasix. but he was offered a 5-pound weight allowance to carry 5 pounds less if he did not administer lasix and he chose to administer lasix. so i think he says it is a
performance-enhancing drug so that is my answer. >> i understand it most racing countries i didn't know that the humane society in u.k. and australia but also japan and may answer drugs so what effect does it have on the health of horses? >> the humane society international was actually in 14 countries there are not indication because they are
not using race day medications. that is the standard that they should meet and do travel internationally with air on the other countries they are racing just fine. so to bring up to the global standard is necessary to pass legislation. >> but i did hear from you mr. janney so what do they used to treat or prevent bleeding?
>> it with those supplemental treatments so for example in with those well-regulated medication protocols of the world with a population the concern of the sky will fall within the horses get around even better and have they do here. >> back to two most successful jurisdictions all under regimes that do not have writer will -- medication including lasix.
>> and for your testimony to see uniformity for the states to adopt the model rule. >> you indeed look young. >> but it is my opinion i will never be around to see that day it will not happen. and with other people to try to figure this out that is exactly what they want to and i am here to provide those things that are necessary so
my children can enjoy it. tonight i think he got it backwards on the lab he said all that one is ish a accredited that's not right there is only one lab in the united states that is how it is the exact reverse that is from california. >> how many states adopted the model rule? but when i was in school i didn't get credit for answer just one question so what you heard this morning is that people have agreed what the list should include but then
it falls off very rapidly and it falls off with competition testing that mr. foreman has identified one of the most important elements. i can assure you lance armstrong never fail the post race test or pre-race he only failed out of competition testing when people understood so in california two days ago or yesterday, the proposal that was ratified by the association of racing commissioners which is the foundation, their rule out of competition testing kb for the california horseracing board and did not do well. the equine medical director said a number of things.
>> thank you i do think in fairness mr. foreman should be able to respond. >> what we have heard today that is somewhat new to us ish a laboratory accreditation is something the international labs have been working to accomplish for some time because we have been so successful in this country with the creation of our standards. there are no international standards international laboratories have been trying to organize a program very similar to what we do with united states so i stand by my statement all the laboratories is accredited which is the international laboratory standard. with respect what is referred to as the program nobody has adopted it started in the mid atlantic. that is the largest concentration of racing on a daily basis of the united
states new jersey is a participant. this started in mid atlantic all states have adopted all five prongs of the uniform medication program in effect it is now sweeping through the country as you can see how it is adopted. >> you wish to comment? >> thank you congressman. we hear a lot about uniformity and patchwork of 38 different states each with their own rulebook. they do but those are substantially similar the state of new jersey racing commission with regard to medication policy and the constituency that is most concerned eddie miner inconsistencies with the radical restructuring of the
system if congress is interested in having one set of standards i can't speak for everybody else to adopt those model rules by reference it has been years and years with that interaction with the creation of those rules. >> the gentleman's time has expired now the gentleman from california. >> thank you very much. >> what kind of understanding do you have what lasix does to a horses lungs rex is there any connection.
>> i do have some basic understanding but i am not well versed in this area i need to do for to my colleague. >> anybody want to stay with the connectionist. >> there certainly is a percentage of horses that harms their performance. >> there are small capillaries in their lungs as the air rushes in and out there could be some degree of bleeding. is that a 1% chance to a small
degree or 2% what is the chance bleeding of the lungs word over her if administer lasix? i am talking about those that will be running. >> many are administered and they lead but do they lead to the extent it inhabits their performance? if it bleeds on a one or two scale it doesn't make much of a difference. >> are any veterinarians on the panel? >> that is unfortunate because we missed an opportunity we are talking about a drug and horses if a jockey is practicing if the jockey does not feel good he can say i don't feel good and to get
can understand that ten years ago or 20 years ago or hundred years ago when people were racing horses and then all of a sudden sometime during that timeframe lasix got involved and this is something that helps or something that is good or something that maybe we should be using but now we have entire countries who are saying lasix is not a good idea and now that we have science, not a good idea. what i would venture to believe that is unbalanced and we don't have one on this panel but in unbalanced veterinarians who deal with better veterinarians that have dealt with animals, horses that have been administered lasix or had to come out and go look at them and render their opinion but the health and safety of that horse and i would venture to believe that those veterinarians are probably shaking her head going human beings, lasix with horses, stopped. the reason why i have joined this bill is because unlike
football players, horses, their voice is up to us human beings as to whether or not we will listen and learn and we will do the right thing. lasix is something that i think, us as intelligent human beings know today that lasix is something that is probably not good for the horses. with that i am out of time and i yield the balance of the time. thank you. >> the gentlemen's time has expired in the chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida for five minutes. >> thank you for holding this hearing. as well. my first question is for -- my understanding is that lasik is administered four hours before
the race and is that correct and why? could you explain explain why it's administered on race day as opposed to the prior day. >> yes, that is correct. the optimum time stated the research to be most efficacious for treating eip age or preventing eip ages between three or four hours and that is also the timeframe that studies done at the university of kentucky proved that there is no further dilution within the blood and therefore the masking that many people talk about is irrelevant because it is not proved to be so if it is administered at the timeframe. >> okay. let me ask another question and i'll probably get different answers and maybe you can answer this question. whoever wants to answer this, please -- will a better be more
inclined to bet on a horse -- i have been away from it a long time and if that better knows that the horse is given lasix and -- you know, i need to know that but also does well, anyway could answer that question. >> i like to address one thing going for. i want to make sure that for the record the veterinary groups unfortunately were not selected here and they have publicly opposed this bill. i would like to make sure that is on record because we weren't allowed to address that. if a wagering individual is aware -- which again, lasix is transparent and publicly put into the program -- >> in florida i know that is the case so the wager would not kn
know. it's also announced, i think, and the public address system as well. >> depending on if there's a correction. >> congressman -- the people who lasix use is almost ubiquitous and i say to people if every horse in that race is running on lasix could you tell me which one has the advantage? they can't. >> what is the alternative and how are they treated to address exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhaging? >> there's a number of therapies and concoctions being used prior to the legalization of lasix and is one of the reasons why the industry welcomed the advent of a new medication that was safe and effective and leveled the playing field. the single biggest concern about eliminating lasix and what is done internationally and in this country if it is not permitted you withdraw water from the
horse for 24 hours prior to competition. any withdraw food and that is how it is done. don't think for a second and princes don't bleed in europe. they might not be able to use lasix on race day but the most effective therapy for a horse to bleed is to withdraw water 24 hours to competition. is that humane? is that in the best interest of the horse and would you rather see horses who are raced dehydrated because they are less likely to bleed the other concoctions in the used to use adjunct leader medications that we have banned, kentucky read and other concoctions they would give to a horse that anecdotally horsemen believed would affect whether or not the horse bleeds are not but to think that we would go back to a situation where we were the wild west before lasix was permitted that we were allowed to stor starve r
withdraw water from our horses were to do other things to me is irresponsible and we would be shirking our responsibilities to our primary responsibility and that is the health and welfare of the horse. if we were to withdraw veterinary communities not elevated to a disease the iph factor and we have a safe and effective medication that is not affect a performance of the horse why would you deprive a horse of that? >> anyone else want to comment. that's the bottom line is we care about horse. >> i would like to if i could. we've heard a lot about the veterinary community and that is they are in difficult position. if you or i go to see our doctor and he looks at us and says after 45 minutes more exercise, less eating and we leave we expect to get a bill. that is not the way it works at the racetrack. if of that comes in and my
trainer says go look at the horse down in a stall one and he's a little sore go look at the one down on three and i think there's a problem with an ankle or whatever he does not get paid unless he prescribes something and some medication. i never paid a bill for consultation and so you are conflicted because as a veterinarian and is a racetrack that you will not feed your family giving consultations and the thoroughbred safety committee and chris is on that committee recommended two or three years ago that one of our principal recommendations was go to a system like a human doctor where someone gets paid to analyze and maybe not prescrib prescribed. lasix is a very lucrative is this. the vets basically are selling
the compounds of their putting into a horse. if your horse may have an ulcer problem and you're getting gastro guard for it the vet has and he resells it. it's a fact of life at the racetrack and it's not the way we should do business. >> i have worked for veterinarians for much of my professional career and -- [inaudible conversations] >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think our witnesses for being here today. do you know how the death rates for horses in the us compare with death rates in other countries? >> i'm sorry, could you repeat the question. >> the death rates for horses in
the united states as compared to other countries? >> i don't have the statistics on that and i can compile that for you. >> if you could, get it back to us. for the all the panel our horses are in the united states more prone to bleeding than resources and other countries and if so, why and why do you believe that or why. be happening? >> there's a study done in 2009 in south africa with over 167 horses were tested and scoped in over 80% of those led to some degree though that is why we believe it is necessary. >> i will add a little bit to that. a lot of the other countries have different training centers. we tend to house our horses at the racetrack. they tend to be in more urban environments with air quality may not be as good and we have a definite predisposition for speed in a race and those elements do affect what is going on and it probably makes are bleeding a bigger problem that might be in other jurisdictions but the fact of the matter is
even having said that it is 10% of the population that we are talking about in 90% of the horses don't need lasix but get it anyway. then they get a bottle of electrolytes after they race to try to rehydrate them. it is a problem. >> mr. martin, is pulmonary bleeding people for the horses? although none of us are horses i don't know if we know. [laughter] >> i can't answer that question. the only thing i can say is what has been alluded to is the american college of veterinary and internal medicine has elevated its assessment of the degree of seriousness of the iph. we reopen this issue in 2011 the cause it has always been a controversial issue and we brought in experts and veterinary experts, research experts and we concluded that there was no science that would
necessitate taking away this medication to that is given either for reason oprah collectively to protect the health of the horse when it raises. >> you said in your testimony that the breeders cup conducts out of competition testing on approximately 85% of all starters in the breeders' cup and puts respective starters under 24 hour surveillance with 72 hours prior to the start time. are such stringent measures common or at the breeders' cup more unique in this respect? >> i would say other than hong kong and japan that the regimen we have established for the breeders' cup is the most strict in the world. certainly, it's a most direct in the united states. as i said in my written testimony the process that is implement it in large event
today like the triple crown races and the breeders' cup security testing out of competition testing is all very advanced and it's the day-to-day racing that i think the public lacks the confidence that those same kind of safeguards are in place and the same level of expertise and testing and enforcement. >> opponents of the bill have shared concerns about some of the usda lack of expertise and veterinary science were specifically in dc that being an obstacle to implement in hr 2651? >> i don't. we share and we humans share 98 plus% of our dna with horses. most of the drugs that are coming into the first industry that could be described as performance-enhancing are coming from human medicine. there's not a huge amount of research with new drugs that are in that going field. it's all coming on the human
side. they have a huge amount of expertise in figuring out all that out and has to be intelligent based testing. you got to know what you are looking for because if the molecule is changed in any way you will not find it. really, i think they are the best people to go forward with this. we are in a new world and i'd love it to be a different world where people did not take an edge but they are taking an edge now in a way that is far more
effective than it used to be. that is our problem and we have to work very closely with the other sports to figure out what is happening. it used to be we only had to worry about what was going on in the harness industry mother was migrating over into the thoroughbreds and that is not the case anymore. they could be a russian, you know, athlete that's taking something and it works pretty well and of course , too. >> thank you. i didn't think russians would be in racing. >> let the committee know that we might have -- like to make sure that all members keep your questions at five minutes so we can get the questions in prior devotes. this time the gentleman from west virginia is organized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i come from northern west virginia and i grew up around [inaudible] and this issue is certainly something that we would have heard about back then about the doping of horses and the problems we had back then but in that area they have switched over to greyhound racing and we still have the meadows and mountaineer park something the industry is important to me and how we have done that and grown up around it
and i've got to say that in a few years great years i've been here with people, for the panel there is some a little confusion whether or not there with us or against us on any particular bill but not on this one. you to i don't get the memo but your passion came out pretty strongly about where you stand on this so i'm fascinated by that but i want to hear a counter to it as we debate this. tell me where they are wrong and where the testimony -- where they wrong? >> the gist of the testimony is things are going fine and were during well and don't mess with us. we don't need a national program and we can do it all ourselves.
i will mention as an example and i mentioned to my testimony in california one of the four components of the national medication program and it took four years to get that done in california. year and half ago we all met in arizona we adopted as part of the art ntc and rci the out of competition testing rules and yesterday after 18 months of deliberation in california that was referred back to committee because the role was claimed to be unclear or failed to meet their mistreated procedures act. if we -- my concern with this conversation focusing so much on lasix. came up with a new medication tomorrow that could be administered 24 hours out and prevent iph it would take four years under the current system to get that implement and nationally because there be so much arguing over its effectiveness and research and everything else in the current system takes too long. it takes forever.
>> if i could, you've been hearing testimony now on the other side of the issue and where are they wrong? could you refute or bolster your case and what should i be listening to because the concern i have a little bit is that the internationally they can use lasix up until the day of the race and they can't on the day of the race so i need to be educated a little bit more about that position and also in debating their testimony -- where they wrong? >> first off, as a son of a marine in the united states american i'm not sure i worry about what they do internationally. what we do in the united states is the number one industry in the world. i think the burden of proof comes from them. they need to tells why this is necessary because statistically it is not. plain and simple. there is no proof of what we're
doing currently needs further oversight and we need more time and money to be spent on researching as was said designer drugs? absolutely. do i need to continue to hear lasix equated as a drug? i do not. lasix is a therapeutic medication, no different than advil and i take it lasix everyday for high blood pressure. it is safe. it is effective for a problem that was elevated to a disease and i need to make sure, as the only one that raised horses appear, it is the health and
referral of the horse that we take care of first. yes, i would say that my members would be the first to stand and say if there was a medication proven that would be as effective or preventive eip age you can administer it 36 hours out that is what is best for the horse and best for our mission statement and that is what we will do. >> thank you. i'll back my time. >> the chair never organizes the gentleman from indiana for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. fascinating subject. passionate on both sides. i was a doctor before i was in congress so i'm not a veterinarian but i was eight people doctor and i'm fascinated with how this is focused on lasix. i as a heart surgeon i give people lasix all the time and so, we get down to the facts here is what we need to know i think when we determine what medication is effective or not. first of all, what's the incidence of the disease and whether or not the medication uses treated and what percentage of patients it is effective and to treat the problem that you are proposing you are treating. you also want to make sure that there is clinical significance
in the problem you are treating. i am not convinced of any of those things as relates to lasix in horseracing other than the fact that horses lose a bunch of weight which gives a racing advantage, clearly. so, i guess i would ask you to start with -- what is the information that says number one the incidence of this problem is significant enough that you said that 90% of horses have no problems here down to 10% roughly. what is the incidence of the disease and is the medication been used to treat that disease and what is the effectiveness of it? and is there a clinical significance in treating the disease enough to treated. >> let me give you my layman's understanding of those questions.
one, all horses lead to some degree under intense levels of exercise. that was only discovered with the introduction of the flexible and the scope. >> could i interrupt you. that's a good point. that means that was their overt clinical evidence of the bleeding prior to looking down into the airway insane there is a little bit of blood -- >> i think the incidence of that in hong kong was about 4%. >> so, very low in relation to clinical evidence. >> there have been studies that were mentioned in south africa that you indicate that lasix does have a positive impact on horses that do bleed so it might reduce a four-three or two-one
and the other answers to these questions is physiological we don't know the impact on individual horses so people say let's not perform enhancement and my wife which is one glass of wine is a lot different than what i have one glass of wine. we don't know in individual equines how that medication affects their individual performance. their trainers may have a better idea or the wagering public but we don't know the answer. final answer is there have been research indicates that although there is some pathological change in the lungs as a result of bleeding over time we don have indication that that has produced the life expectancy of horses, their useful life as a resource, nor is the clinical indication that there is disease that follows that pathology. >> i will have one of the other people that doesn't post the bill get there, stood quickly, anything to add? >> one of the things that you have to worry about is perception on the industry. being out of step with the rest of the world. i degree can disagree with my colleague over here on the left.
we sell our horses in international markets. there's a reason that they've written a letter supporting this bill. the reason is every other national association talks about why us forces are inferior. whether that is true or not, i am not saying but the second thing is [inaudible] is president of the jockey club had he is going to international forums and at those forums always the other international bodies say why should we accredit your races in the united states when you run on race day medications -- >> i will interrupt you could do have a few seconds left. thank you, anyone else any comments? >> i think the history of lasix is well known and the research has been done subsequent to the 30 years when it was first put in place probably makes a case more to permit it. as far as international in north
america we have -- canada allows lasix and there's a ton of standardbred horses across the border that race -- >> i have to interrupt because the german wants me to stand time. thank you and i'll back. >> the chair now recognizes the gentleman from oklahoma for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for being here and thank you, andy, for leading on this. mr. foreman, our state racing commissions equipped to properly regulate the forcing industry? >> they've done it for over a century and doing it now. do you consider horserace out-of-state would you consider it more of a national sport than just a state sport at this point? >> our sport is national to the extent that we are permitted to simulcast our races around the country and that we have better who are wagering on races.
the answer to this -- >> to the horses travel across state lines customer. >> particularly in the mid-atlantic which is the largest concentration in the cross state lines everyday. >> commerce would be traveling across state lines at that point? great. >> yes. >> and i think that is what we are talking about and i get that but the fact is that congress does have a role on the commerce side when it crosses a state lines even when it comes to sports. i do not like regulations at all. i mean, i think we are equipped to regulate ourselves so everyone needs to understand that but congress does have a role when it starts crossing states lines. that is a role we have to regulate and when we are
starting to talk about the bill and starting to talk about moving forward it's not about the industry. the industry can oversee itself and those participating can oversee its of we have 32 jurisdictions that are working to uniform the standards inside was racing and i get all that. but what role does congress have to play? in this particular role when we start talking about the first racing industry, not track to track but this congress to have a role to play in this or not? >> very quick answer. if you all had not pass the interstate horseracing act we would not be here. i would not be in the business and there wouldn't be an industry. >> does congress play a role in nascar? they travel from state to state and compete in different -- >> we do we do in the nfl in
major league baseball and nba and not in the usc but we will within mma but ultimately each commission of the 34 for a mutual govern jurisdictions with oklahoma you have will rogers downs and -- >> that is not for this and i understand that. i'm not for over regulating but i'm asking a question does congress have a role to play in it or not? >> i do not think so. each state is a 100%. [inaudible conversations] >> you have to abide by the rules that are in that state. >> and the horses travel from track to track and the owners travel from track to track, right? >> yes, my first cousin is a very good friend of mine very close and we traveled all over the place row doing together because my background is radio and [inaudible] he shoes purses all over the place and travels
from track to track which makes the industry not just regulated and not just overseeing by just one state. i don't like it anymore than anybody else. i don't want to over regulate the industry. the industry is successful and working but congress does have a role to play here. as much as i don't like it that is the end of -- that's really the end of the beginning of our conversation. the crosses the state line that is where our role-plays and that's why we have interstate commerce in interstate commerce and there are two different things. >> the difference between nascar and us is we are betting. sports betting is coming. >> i'm sure there's no betting on nascar.
>> sports betting is coming and you will have as a committee, i'm sure, an interesting question asked you what you want to do but the fact of the matter is the reason we're all here is the interstate simulcasting act and people in california are betting on your graces and vice versa. that is really the important. >> congressman, interestingly the horseracing act is not regulate simulcasting. is related by the states. the interstate connect is prevent simulcasting two states but i'm not legalize gaveling and left the industry regulate for permits it in states that allow it. >> i feel like were a long way from getting the but it's a conversation the needs be had and i appreciate you for bringing this up because as we do need to look forward we do need to understand what role we have to plan this. i yield back. >> the chair now organizes the gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes. >> in her testimony state that anti- doping lacks equine
knowledge. how that impede their ability to be effective? >> we feel it's well-known emphasize the unite states anti- doping agency has experienced in human testing professional human sports and it is our belief that while they do have that expertise in humans crossing over to the grand world is not only different but logistically different. nothing in this piece of legislation but some doing anything different that we already have in place now. >> share briefly the logistic it differences that you are referencing. >> for one i would say the quantity number of test and one thing we have continued to not be exposed to as the economic impact that this will have on her industry and to me i see that as a very logistically
different cult hurdle to get over and at this point nothing has been done as far as an economic study to show us what this will cost with a new, some could say to new regulatory bureaucratic layers added on to us already. >> thank you. i invite you to respond to anything that might have been said as well as explained to the committee more about the potential abuse of designer drugs in horseracing. >> well, you know, all of us read in popular publications how designer drugs are introduced on a daily basis and the term designer drug is probably overstated. there's constant researching medicine directed at developing new medications and somehow or another they find their way into horseracing or athletics or areas they were not intended at all. the concern here is that we don't have a concerted national effort to identify threats as they occur whether those be to
know make alterations or designer drugs or other practices that none of us are aware of. it's hard for those of us who are honest to come up with devious things that other people come up with but we need to find a national organization to identify those threats and deal with them. >> congressman, i could respond to your question. >> yes,. >> they do not regulate the performance horse industry that regulates in the olympics. they may do human athletes but they do not do that equine petitions. that is related by the united states equestrian federation which has its own governing body and own regulations in a laboratory. clearly they are not capable and qualified or they would be doing the work of the lipid committee and the performance horse industry in this country.
>> thank you. you indicated t's alrdy total uniformity as relates to banning performance-enhancing drugs in tracing and if that is the case why would your proponents of this bill still wish to see it enacted? >> well, as i said in my testimony i don't think it's about uniformity. i think it's about lasix and about getting the regulation of the sport into the hands of those who are not state regulators who are permitting the practice right now. that is fundamentally what is going on here and i thank you can hear it in the debate. the industry is focused on performance-enhancing drugs. the industry is focused on evera consortium that would be the scientific arm of the industry because that is why those who are proponents wanted and an independent, scientific arm to advise the industry of medication matters and that's an
organization that has done very well and it's one we rely on and they are the scientific body makes the recognitions to us and quite friendly, when it comes to the work that we're doing with designer drugs or other new drugs that are entering the market place and new to raising we do that research and we do that work through the are in tc. >> thank you. any quick follow-up? >> the issue of designer drugs does come up in the lack of the lack of organization and you're sitting next to one in the rtc is another one and the association of racing chemist is a third. when we get information about the use of a potential substance it goes into that network in various ways and i know the new york lab has come under criticism here because it used to be a wagering director in new york and the first time i met the doctor that i appreciate it
how we spent all his free time on the internet cruising the blogs of other sports to see what they were using in trying to develop ways to detect that and that is not changed in all of those years. as a matter of fact, was the new york lab the reason they discovered the use of a designer drug that no one had the ability to test for and that was circulated out to the network of labs. we may not be good at counting our own phone but there is a system in place and it may not be perfect but there is a system in place and we work every day to strengthen it and try to make it better. >> thank you. i encourage you to supplement your testimony with any additional written response to you back the balance of time. >> the gentleman time has expired the chair now recognizes itself at this time. mr. foreman, are there any concerns with having the role trade commission oversee this type of program and i'm not aware of another agency and i appreciate your thoughts on it.
>> i'm not aware of any other programs particularly in our industry. think is interesting that the involvement of the federal trade commission in postconsumer protection and i envision and i said it in my statement and i was not engaging in hyperbole and if there is a move to illuminate lasix in this country in racing in the united states it will force owners out of the business. it will force for sales to go on many states around the country with auctions and sales but a disclaimer that will have to be put on forces that are sold that they are potential bleeders and that they may suffer this incident of eip age and that they will not be able to treat that horse for racing in that horse may not be able to race. now, can you envision buying an automobile or a product for your told at the time of sale that this product may have a problem and is likely to have a problem
and you will not be able to fix it in a way that you can use it. will you buy that product? that is why you don't see the breeders organizations that the country supporting this bill because they know it will happen. it will chill sales. you got oers who have forces that bleed. if you take this medication away from them they will leave the business. where will those horses go? this is not europe. we have thousands of races in this country and 32 states conducting racing on it daily or seasonal basis, tens of thousands of people employed in this business and it labor-intensive. you take these animals off the racetrack where will they go? that is the choices i am talking about. i'm sure you've heard from constituents in this industry and what effect that simple what you think is a simple change will have on the economics of
the horseracing industry. >> you. in your testimony -- can you explain what you've seen in respect to cheaters using this? >> milk shaking has probably had its heyday but basically what it was doing was loading up with bicarbonate which had an effect on slowing the deterioration of strengthen the muscles because it slow down the oxygen leaving the muscles it was basically horses were being loaded up with bicarbonate. after quite a long time the industry addressed it and they did address it on a state-by-state basis and they did take a very long time but fundamentally we are able to look at levels of oxygen in the blood and with some determination having lived through it in new york where i was on the new york racing board
i can tell you that the limit was set so high that it still allowed a fair amount of milk shaking to go on. the numbers were such that you could go over that but you could milkshake and stay under that limit and that is where we are today but there is no question that milk shaking can be effective in the horses end up with more stamina to complete the race. >> thank you. i yield the balance of my time and i see we have no other members wishing to ask questions but first of all i want to thank our panel for being with us today. it's been an informational and informative meeting but before we conclude i would like to ask for the following document stresemann and for the record by unanimous consent. we are quite a number with a letter from the american quarter
association and the american racing agreement and letter from [inaudible] in a letter from the equine health and welfare alliance and [inaudible] a letter from the jockey club in the letter from the ohio state racing commission and from barbara bank of stonestreet and testimony from the jockey club and documents from doctor thomas tobin and testimony from william thomas association and a letter from the racing association and the letter from the trucking association and the letter from west point thoroughbreds and letter from the kentucky derby association. a letter from the north american association of race track and veterinarians and a letter from the thoroughbred owners and breeders association and letter from sean for the coalition of race were seen and documents from the humane society of the united states and a letter and
roster from the old alliance. but that again i want to thank our witnesses for testifying today and i mentioned that there are additional sections that would be submitted for the record by our members you have about a ten day period for you to answer those questions. i appreciate you for being here for your testimony and at this time the subcommittee will stand adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
>> c-span's washington journal five everyday with news and policy issues that affect you. coming up saturday morning, jessica religion of the competitive enterprise institute will discuss the recent report really alone states to collect sales tax on online transactions. at a young science letter for the atlantic talks about whether the us is ready for the next plague and bloomberg agricultural reporter on the house passed farm bill that includes new stricter work requirements for food stamp recipients. be sure to watch c-span's washington funeral live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on saturday morning. join the discussion. >> the language of attack of harm and damage that by expressing an opinion that people don't like you have inflicted an injury and i found that very striking and frankly, rather frightening, if the truth be told and quite emblematic of the way that the left is now responding to any sort of dissent and especially one that trudges on identity grievance
and politics which is everywhere and has affected everything. >> university of pennsylvania law school presser, a meat wax on the limits of free expression on college campuses in the united states sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on a c-span's q&a. >> congress secretary wilbur ross and the head of strategic command and nasa testify at a house hearing of satellite technology. they discussed a proposal by the trump administration to get the commerce department the response ability for managing space traffic. this is a joint hearing of the house armed services subcommittees on space and strategic forces. it's one hour 20 minutes.